This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters

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• 
  Fubbzy
  January 13th, 2022
  

  Thank you.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  GordonCoon
  January 13th, 2022
  

  

  It’s very positive for this site to now be sharing cuckold literature as well as the usual samey jerk material that it normally deals in.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  callmebill
  January 13th, 2022
  

  I don’t understand. How come so many of my now carnivore friends were once vegans? Committed, serious vegans who swore up and down about books like this, and now they have changed to a very meat-heavy diet? And they say feel much better and all their health problems (some serious) have now cleared up and they are never going back. How come the longest-lived people on earth are meat-eaters? Even the vegans admit this in their YouTube videos. Well, this is what I see every day. Cheers.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  bd2232
  January 13th, 2022
  

  

  This is sort of an okay book (though I eat more beef/chicken/pork than most families do in a day).

  I do find it funny though, most people who stop eating meat then have to supplement their diet with vitamins/mineral supplements to make up for the difference.

  I grew up on a 220 acre farm so, meat is hardwired into me.

  I downloaded this book just for gits and shiggles but, do agree that we should have more veggies on our plates but, not to leave meat off.

  If anyone seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you’ll get this line:

  ‘He no eat meat, no problem, I serve lamb.’

  Stay safe folks.:)

  bd.vegan

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  grins
  January 13th, 2022
  

  There are no real answers here except realizing what we do with the vast amount of butchery in the name of getting fat(or apparently keeping alive).. carnivours are like tombstones… I think we only deserve to eat soylent green..

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 13th, 2022
  

  @Fubbzy It’s a great book. You’ll definitely enjoy it!

  @GordonCoon Ah, there’s nothing wrong with keeping an open mind to learn a thing or two :) There is a vast research field and academic support for plant based diets. If you look into some of the “other resources” in the description, you will find many sources to learn more. Check out the “Best Speech You Will Ever Hear by Gary Yourofsky” (and the Q and A after - it’s very funny). You will find that it is not cuckold and jerk material, but that it has weight, that it is interesting and important. Millions of people eating less animal products or no animal products would replace the amount of farms that farm animals to other venues, and all it takes is one factory farm to cause a pandemic. Millions of families ruined. Probability wise, it’s an excellent move, to reduce the risk of such an event. There’s a lot more of course, definitely check out the resources to learn more. And it’s not like you have to eat cardboard, you also get to eat grass and sticks! (but seriously, you can basically eat everything you do now, but veganize it and in return there are a massive chain of events that benefit you and everyone else).

  @callmebill A lot of people commit to many habits/lifestyles and later give them up. How many people have you known who went to the gym and no longer do? how many diets have your friends tried and gave them up? How many of these habits/lifestyles have you committed to and given up? If your friends feel better on a meat heavy diet, they might’ve done something like raw vegan, or have eaten unintentionally prolonged low calorie diets (because the majority of plants are low in fat, and hence kcal). After depriving yourself of significant calorie sources, you will immediately begin feeling better after consuming anything that is dense in calories, even fast food.

  They also could’ve ignored supplementation of vitamin b12, which due to sanitation are no longer available on plants or our water (because it’s produced by bacteria). And consider that meat heavy diets are also not impervious to causing health issues (also environmental and ethical issues). Common causes from a heavy animal product diet are most importantly pandemics, which affect everyone. Another major issue are antibiotic resistant bacteria (we’re losing one of our most important pharmaceuticals :( As for personal health problems, they would be heart disease (our number one killer at the moment), some cancers (see the WHO report on processed and red meats), diabetes and more. There is no diet that is perfect. But, your friends can be as healthy as they want to on a plant based diet.

  As for the longest lived people, you can definitely find pretty long life expectancies in westernized countries. People usually point to Hong Kong. But then simply look at San Francisco in the USA, who are only a few years behind in life expectancy. Will you now make the argument that a SAD (Standard American Diet), is healthy? To prove the hypothesis you propose, you would have to look into Hong Kong itself, and control for factors such as socioeconomics (e.g. can your subjects afford education? hospital visits? proper food? and etc - it would be unfair to compare those that can, to those that can’t. It will change the results regardless of animal product/plant intake). Further control for factors such as fitness, weight, the healthfulness of a diet (do you eat mainly fast food?), and etc. To see whether in that specific country, do those eating more meat live longer, or do those eating less meat, but more plants? - I can already tell you the answer (because it is a consistent result throughout the world): Given a proper control of confounding factors (e.g. you can find some studies where those eating an egg or two per day live longer, but then you will find that socioeconomic factor is not controlled for - so really, it is those that are richer that live longer, and animal products become markers of wealth. As they are luxuries for most people throughout the world), those eating more plants have not only a longer life expectancy, but also quality of life (you do not want to only live longer, you also want to be agile, to not be in pain, to not have to have expensive and painful medical procedures, and etc). Let me point you to these place: the Bluezones. Their diets consist mainly of plants with a low amount of animal products (not anymore though - all countries are becoming westernized. Significant increases in meat, fast food, and etc - while all of the previous impressive health outcomes drop. More heart disease, cancers and etc). Look at traditional Okinawans (not modern Okinawans), who used to consume 95 - 99% of their caloric intake from whole plants, and consisted of the most centenarians. Or the Adventists, who have the longest life expectancy on the planet (the more plant based they were, the longer their life expectancy). You will not find centenarians that consume meat heavy diets, at least not in significant numbers. You can always find the oddball, such as the lifelong smoker and drinker and etc living into their 100’s, but that is outside of the norm. Unlike the bluezones where that is fairly common.

  @bd2232 Yes, there definitely needs to be an intake of a b12 source when switching from animal products due to a sanitary lifestyle (which is preferable in my opinion. Preventing the many types of harmful bacteria/viruses/parasites for taking a supplement is a worthwhile tradeoff). But that is not only specific to this lifestyle because there are also many b12 deficient people who follow carnism. A b12 supplement is recommended for most people, independent of diet, especially for elderly people (even common foodstuffs are fortified with it, e.g. bread, cereal and etc). It’s a water soluble vitamin, the toxicity rate is basically nil. And you do not have to switch the meat for broccoli or low calorie/low protein stuff. You can switch the meat for similar alternatives to it. Which are either produced by yourself (there are so many easy/quick recipes), or a company (of which there are so many these days). This can solve the meat being hardwired into you because you do not give anything up. The small amount of effort is definitely worth it in my opinion.

  The most important benefit is the massive reduction in pandemic risk, and antibiotic resistant bacteria. I can’t stress enough how important antibiotics are. See the effects of the lack of them yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkyAuG9RSSU (I recommend watching at 1.5x - 2x speed - I will never stop recommending utilizing this option after I tried it :D)

  But also because even if the alternative is a processed product, there will still be a slight personal advantage health wise as there are less inflammatory molecules (such as endotoxins, oxysterols, Neu5Gc, TMAO, heterocyclic amines, heme iron and more). However, if that alternative is a bean/lentil, then the health benefits blow the animal protein out of the sky due to the fiber, phytochemicals and more.

  But also because the environmental benefits are too incredible to pass up. Deforestation is a major problem, and animal agriculture is the main culprit. So are ocean deadzones and run offs (watch What The Health which is linked in the description above, it interviews people who have to live beside these factory farms - you will be able to observe, and they will tell you the massive issues that these farms cause for them). If we were to switch to plants, the UN/IPCC say we could feed a population of 2050 (projected to add several billion more people) with less land than we use today.

  And of course, another very important factor is that there will be nobody in a slaughterhouse (I have also linked a source for that. So you can see life from the perspective of a slaughter house worker, look above, it’s titled “Slaughterhouse Workers (interesting read)”). Could you imagine having to kill animals all day every day, for years? It would drive you mental. Could you further imagine getting treated like a farm animal? you’ve no idea what they go through (there’s an expression “getting treated like an animal”). Above in the “other resources” section I have linked Dominion, I 100% recommend watching it.

  I could type until my fingers bleed. There is nothing you will ever find anything that takes such little effort but offers so many benefits other than a plant based diet.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  bd2232
  January 13th, 2022
  

  Interesting outlook (and mostly right).

  As for antibiotics in your meats….in Canada we tend to not do that (also none added to any dairy at all).

  Do I fully agree that animal farming/livestock is the reason for many of our environmental issues….yes/no.

  I did use the wording hardwired (mostl
  y because it just felt good). I do eat meals that have no meat in them from time to time and, do get a majority of my EFA/MCFA from plant products (coconut for MCFA and, EVOO and avacado for EFA).

  However, soy products are not great for men to eat (too many studies to list but, you can just google CMA/AMA or whatever one you’d like to get your info from).

  As for following any diet and switching….I always follow a simple rule:

  If the product has chemicals in it, it stays on the shelf. If you are buying a product and, the main ingredient is 4th or 5th on the list (or heck…not 1st), don’t buy.

  I find it great that an odd book like this has been upped to the site and, like the conversation going on around/about it.

  No real true winners here. Animal or plant based diets….we all have our opinions.

  As for the slaughter house…..nightmarish places. I tend to buy grass fed and free range meats (mostly because I know what kind of hell those places are).

  Stay safe.:)

  bd.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  Roddd
  January 13th, 2022
  

  More BS about all sorts of things people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

  I worked in a meatworks for a while and know many who worked their whole working lives in them. Like any segment of the workforce, most are basically stable, normal people - not a bunch of psycho nut-jobs.

  Lets get 100% real people - we are and always have been meat eaters. Originally we were scavengers - ate fruit & nuts as well as whatever game we could scare away the beast that killed it from. Based on evidence it is postulated that we pretty much were eating the equivalent to road-kill until we learned to hunt. After we learned this skill and we had fire, where we could cook our meat which killed a lot of the bugs, which in turn aided us to become stronger and more healthy.

  The real issue we have is not vegan/vegetarian/carnivore diet, but balance of what we eat. As an ex chef that spent many years producing various diet plans at different stages for hospital patients or for elite sportspeople I firmly believe it is all about balance. A solely vegetarian diet is probably as bad or worse than a solely carnivore diet. As a people, laziness actually tops the lot. The need to go away from convenience foods is a must. Prepare fresh ingredients from scratch and portion things correctly will provide better nutrition and health benefits than using packaged products that are full of additives.
  Don’t even get me started on crappy takeaways.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 13th, 2022
  

  @bd2232 I checked a dietetics organization in Canada, this is what they say the guidelines are: “Hormones and antibiotics can be used in food production in Canada.” “In Canada, growth hormones are only approved for use in cows for beef production (beef cattle). They help to produce leaner beef at a lower cost to consumers by helping cows convert the food they eat into muscle more quickly and easily.” “Keeping animals healthy is a top priority for farmers and animal veterinarians. Antibiotics are medicines farmers can use (with veterinary supervision) to: 1. Treat sick animals 2. Prevent disease in animals and fruit crops 3. Manage disease 4. Promote growth (in some animals). Antibiotics are approved for use in beef, dairy cattle, chickens, laying hens, turkeys, pork and fish.”

  Also the soy increasing estrogen is a weird argument to me, as dairy itself contains mammalian estrogen that can bind to our mammalian estrogen receptors. While soy contains a phytoestrogen, that instead binds to those receptor but blocks the uptake of mammalian estrogen. Which overall, reduces estrogenic effects throughout your body. I have only seen one case studies where a man ate nothing but tofu, like kilograms (several pounds) per day, and experienced breast tissue growth. But that is an extraordinary case. Also people who are vary of soy, usually drink beer. But the problem with beer is that it has the strongest known phytoestrogen that does actually stimulate breast tissue growth. So now comes the real question:

  Why is it that nobody is aware of the phytoestrogen in beer, but aware of the soy? Well let me tell you: Animal agriculture is a trillion dollar per year business. A business such as that has accumulated insane power. They have control over everything. They’re inside politics, they’re inside dietary guidelines, they’re inside education, they are everywhere. And to top it all off, they have a lot of capital for “research” (which is marketing research - looking for ways to find something in your product that can be marketed, or to attack something that has been shown in your product to cause harm, or to simply attack a competitor, all of which to get headlines and most importantly, sales - their latest campaign is choline. Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with science anymore, it is all about the bottom line). So why is it that you’re aware of the phytoestrogens in soy but not beer? They, the animal agriculture industry have executed a massive campaign against soy (e.g. they fund organizations such as the Weston Price Foundation) as it causes damage to their bottom line. And it’s important to note that if you do believe their campaigns, you do not have to eat it. Plant based diets do not mandate eating soy. But if you are on the fence, here’s Harvard on soy (you can look for other organizations, they share the sentiment): https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/ “Soy is a unique food that is widely studied for its estrogenic and anti-estrogenic effects on the body. Studies may seem to present conflicting conclusions about soy, but this is largely due to the wide variation in how soy is studied. Results of recent population studies suggest that soy has either a beneficial or neutral effect on various health conditions. Soy is a nutrient-dense source of protein that can safely be consumed several times a week, and probably more often, and is likely to provide health benefits—especially when eaten as an alternative to red and processed meat.” “Part of the uncertainty is due to the intricacy of soy’s effects on the body. Soy is unique in that it contains a high concentration of isoflavones, a type of plant estrogen (phytoestrogen) that is similar in function to human estrogen but with much weaker effects. Soy isoflavones can bind to estrogen receptors in the body and cause either weak estrogenic or anti-estrogenic activity. The two major soy isoflavones are called genistein and daidzein. Soy isoflavones and soy protein appear to have different actions in the body” (I cut off some of the following quote).

  I’m glad to hear you’re paying attention to these topics. But I will ruin another marketing campaign that they have taken: the grass fed and free range, again, is simply marketing for the bottom line. They are there to make the consumer feel better and to charge them more for little effort. They really do not change practices to a significant extent. Instead of cages, now it’s the same shed without the cage. And what constitutes “free range”? e.g. is it access to a field? I would recommend simply entering “free range exposed” (they will not willingly show their practices) into youtube and you will be able to see it with your own eyes (or piped.kavin as it removes age restriction).

  @Roddd It does depend where you worked, on the killing floor? How well do you know the people you worked with? People can hide many psychological effects that they are experiencing. Mental issues such as PTSD are significantly increased in slaughterhouse workers, so are diabetes/cancer (from a bacteria/virus laden environment), as well as violent crimes. Particularly sexual crimes. Manufacturing jobs decrease crime, but when it comes to slaughterhouse work, there is an extraordinary difference. Why do you believe that is the case? I believe it’s that when you kill animals all day every day, the lines become very thin. I have referenced above a thread, which itself referenced a study which talks about how some of the slaughterhouse workers after working in such places for a while, can easily boot a dog or a cat so hard that it flies and they do not care because the next day they’ll be doing something worse. In essence, your personal experience does not always accurately represent something. Consider this: how many people simply quit because of such effects? You could have experienced survivorship bias. Scientific methods involve a lot of control for such factors.

  As for being meat eaters, I must disagree with that, because people have no carnivorous instincts. These are learned behaviors. I have none either, nor do my friends. None of us have ever looked at a fox, squirrel, or bird and chased it to kill and eat it. I understand why our ancestors did so, they had to. They did not have the luxuries that some of our planet does today, particularly us, in the western world. I would point to biochemistry if you would like to determine whether humans are meat eaters: Our body preserves cholesterol. No carnivorous/omnivorous animal does that. They had, throughout evolution and have a lot of cholesterol coming in, they have developed mechanisms to process it, to get rid of it. Too much of anything is dangerous. But with humans, after constantly eating animal products our cholesterol levels accumulate to the point where they are 4 - 6x the normal level. Causing inflammatory reactions within the endothelium which causes macrophages to come in, which further cause many inflammatory processes leading to a colony of foam cells, which further progressing to atherosclerotic plaques which after progressing to a significant stage, cause strokes, heart attacks and other health issues such as Alzheimer’s. That is abnormal. It’s not normal to die from something that we are built to eat. CVD is our number one killer. Only something that is new to us, something that we were not build for, such as an abnormal behavior, abnormal to our species, would cause such effects. If we were true meat eaters it would be the other way. We would have adapted to our environment and developed mechanisms to deal with an overloading of a compound such as that, as every carnivorous/omnivorous animal did. If you look at ancestral data, they say it is fire that allowed us to developed to what we are now. It opened up a whole uncontested area of food: Starch. Very few animals compete for potatoes, grains and etc which allowed us to consume a lot more calories.

  Also, sorry but I must disagree again. If the totality of evidence is evaluated, a vegetarian diet reduces the risk of chronic disease, which is even further decreased by a whole foods vegan lifestyle. While the opposite is shown for meat heavy diets, such as a low carb diet. The amount of cases from diseases such as heart disease shoot up, significantly. And that’s compared to the general population, of SAD eaters. You make a great point about cooking though! It can be very fun to cook something incredible.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  dave5050j
  January 13th, 2022
  

  So Roddd you’ve worked in meat for a while and that makes you an expert in public health, anthropology, evolutionary biology and epidemiology. Could you please reference some of the works that you’ve published so that we may also consider your alternate perspectives?
  thank you!

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  bd2232
  January 13th, 2022
  

  Well I have to say, some of this stuff is giving me ‘food for thought’.:)

  As for free range/grass fed, it is all local farmers we buy from so, they are in a pasture and, these are people who use natural methods to treat their animals.

  As for the soy thing, I took a gander and, damn….tricky SOBs on their part to try and tell folks it was that bad for years but, alot of research that is certified says otherwise.

  The best response so far, is a balanced diet (said by the chef).

  As for the beer thing, that’s an eye opener (knew it always caused men to gain fat in the chest/belly region) but, to be higher than soy is surprising.

  Always good to learn new things and, sad to say, I think we are having a more civilized conversation on here than on FB or any social media site…go figure, pirates with brains I guess! lol

  My personal opinion is that the prepackaged foods and, the companies that put that awful, harmful and bull preserve HFC in their products should be in just as much trouble as giving people a disease up front. HFC (with bad diets), over eating and, not eating the right ratios of carbs, protein and, good fats (even HFC in some plant based products that are prepackaged) is a true killer.

  Wonder though, no one ever talks about HFC in products and how bad they are.

  Stay safe folks.:)

  bd.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  412whistle
  January 14th, 2022
  

  Did you hear about the epidemic of vegans with easily broken bones, arms specifically…from patting themselves on the back

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  shpoonk
  January 14th, 2022
  

  

  Thank you! :)

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  osmium
  January 14th, 2022
  

  

  @A.B.B You’re a gem for those answers … I wouldn’t have bothered. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

  Reducing ones intake of critter flesh and ova is almost a planetary necessity given the amounts of land required to raise crops to feed and graze them, as well as the absurd amount of water the beasties require.

  It’s math. You can’t hide from it.

  Timely book.

  Thanks!

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  GordonCoon
  January 14th, 2022
  

  I am glad that the willing diet cuckolds are happy to stop eating meat, it means more steaks for me.

  I switched to a pure carnivore diet nearly 3 years ago and it’s great. Tasty, nutritious, builds muscle, and involves eating an all-natural diet.

  The other day, I helped my neighbor slaughter a pig, and then we made delicious lechon from it and I made black pudding from the blood drained from it, it was fantastic.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  Jack_Milad
  January 14th, 2022
  

  @A.B.B I give it less than a month before you get exhausted of putting effort into trying to engage with people who never had any intention of an honest dialogue.

  @GordonCoon a high protein, low carb diet drastically increases your chances of heart disea… actually, nevermind. Know what goes well with a full pack of bacon? A cigar and pint of real ale. Oh, and heroin.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 14th, 2022
  

  @dave5050j Veganism is contrary to the goals of massive interests. Just like with many issues, it has been a topic that has been polarized. It is easy to come upon it and respond impulsively. Even though some people respond in that manner, those very same persons are likely open minded. They respond to engagement and reasonable arguments. There is no need to attack/talk down to them. If you do, just as if it would be done to you, it can be presumed that very little progress would be made. Rather than focusing on the topic, it is now personal. It only works to communicate in such a manner if you want to let off steam. But that itself negatively affects others which can further cause others to let off steam, it can cause a chain reaction. We must not participate in such conversation. My motto is that even if you see comments/responses that are somewhat aggressive, understand that there are a million reasons as to why that happens, give people some leeway (don’t make them defensive), and move past it so you can focus on the topic at hand.

  @bd2232 Yes, the conversation and response here is excellent! Hopefully more people will begin constructive conversations and reviews so we can discuss the propositions as well as the ideas in the books. I’m excited for when I can be the spectator of the constructive conversation between other users!

  I forgot to point out the possibility of a technicality from the the previous guidelines shown by the dietetics organization: 2. “Prevent disease in animals and fruit crops” - When thousands of chickens, pigs and etc are kept together in close proximity, due to harsh and filthy conditions, they cannot avoid developing disease (one of the primary costs of animal agriculture are dying animals). This technicality can allow farms to justify using antibiotics for growth, under the pretense that it is preemptive prevention of disease (It’s not even a lie. So it can be justified as it is the norm to develop diseases in factory farms). This might further allow them to advertise “antibiotic free!” and to charge more (I am not sure about the in depth regulation when it comes to this part). One must ask: How can most of the chicken sold, for cheap prices, in these massive supermarket chains make such claims? Mass production of poultry without antibiotics? surely that cannot be possible since they all come from factory farms? How are they keeping them alive? If that is the case, that they are abusing antibiotics while claiming antibiotic free, you do not have to look far.

  Why are the guidelines in such a way? Who makes these laws? As you can imagine, with massive wealth comes the ability to hire a plethora of lobbyists, to give very generous “contributions” to politicians, and etc. So in this society that we live in, the US, Canada, UK, anywhere, it is the industries that are regulating their selves. Creating their own policies, guidelines and enacting them into law.

  So I would be vary of “local”, that is a term that has even less, significant regulation. A local family farm, these days, mostly means a local factory farm. With the same intensive farming methods that reduce costs and maximize production. 99% of meat in the US comes from factory farms. Around 95% in the UK. In the Australia it is the same, so is it in Canada (however, I could not find official statistics for Canada - but here’s what makes me believe it is the case: https://factoryfarmcollective.ca/does-factory-farming-exist-in-canada-heres-what-the-data-says/ - “Ontario MPP Goldie Ghamari spoke in the Ontario Legislature to provide support for Bill 156, Ontario’s new Ag-Gag bill: Security from Trespass and Protecting Food Safety Act. Bill 156 aims to hide animal cruelty by increasing trespassing fines for people exposing animal abuse on farms, creating “animal protection zones,” and silencing whistleblowers who expose animal cruelty under “false pretenses.” (June 2020 update: Ontario has passed bill 156 on June 17, 2020)”.

  1. If they were truly made up of friendly, high welfare, family owned farms with non intensive practices that focus on animal welfare, they would not push and pass a bill that makes it illegal to visit these farms without permission or to record their practices (or to be an employee and whistleblow).

  2. “From 1976 to 2016, the total number of animal farms decreased from 412,404 to 119,699. Meanwhile, the number of animals per farm increased from 117 million to 181 million.” “From 1976 to 2016, the average number of sheep per farm doubled from 56 to 112. The number of cows more than doubled, from 67 to 166. For turkeys, the average number increased almost five fold, from 639 to 3,123.” “Over this time period, the most significant intensification occurred for chickens and pigs. The number of chicken farms decreased substantially from 99,128 to 23,910, but the increase in animals per farm was seven fold, from 878 to 6,086. And finally, the most staggering example of intensification in Canadian animal agriculture is pig farming – the number of pig farms decreased from 63,602 to 8,402, while the average numbers of pigs per farm increased over 18 times, from just 91 in 1976 to 1,677 in 2016″.

  Conceptualize the difference between 600 to 3000 turkeys, or 900 to 6,000 chickens, or 90 to 1600 pigs on a single farm. I think it is evident that factory farms have taken over Canada as they have everywhere else. Why is that so? I believe there just isn’t a significant market of people willing to pay up to 2x for the same product. Small farms cannot compete against cutting costs by getting every bit of efficiency out of the product (animals), to logistics, to the employees and to maximizing production. To decipher whether you are truly buying from a good, local farm, do an unscheduled visit to their farm. If they prevent you from coming in, you have your answer (also if you do, you should bring a camera).

  And still… this rabbit hole goes even deeper. Even organizations that give labels for passing their inspection, such as “sustainable”, “high welfare”, “fair wages” (inspected by so and so) and etc - are predominantly funded by the very same industries that they are meant to watch. This is an incredible conflict of interest. How can their labels possibly have credibility? In my eyes, it is clearly a marketing tactic to appease the consumer to increase sales.

  I know this is quite a bit of information, that it can be uncomfortable to intake as it sort of challenges a world view, a lifestyle, a habit that is, an important, lifelong habit. I am on the very same boat. When I came across veganism, I used every argument that I could come up with to rationalize, to excuse it. But I kept looking into this topic and eventually, I was convinced. I spent years reading books, watching debates, watching scientific and academic lectures, reading hundreds of nutritional studies. It got to the point where I compiled a list of 700 studies on my “must read” list, and began studying biochemistry. But I stopped at that point as that is too much for simple curiosity. I believe one should only attempt to acquire such expertise if they are going to be a contributor or educator to/of the field. Which I am not, so I stopped. The point is, I am not sharing this information to overload people, but because I am a fan of people sharing the knowledge that they have acquired, so I follow. I’m glad that so many people have an open mind and it is delightful to participate in this engagement! For a closing point, I would say consider that you do not have to give anything up for going plant based. You can make and buy alternative products that replace whatever texture and taste you require. And from all the products that I use, I haven’t seen HFCS.

  As for moderation, I definitely support it. A low intake of animal products will not harm your health (unless a pandemic strain of a virus or antibiotic resistant bacteria happens to be hitching a ride :D) But at the same time, it reminds me of the clip from South Park, where Randy says “I’m going to get a little bit of cancer Stan!” and afterwards microwaves his balls :D If somebody suffers from diabetes, moderation could mean just a couple of toes. Is there a moderate pandemic? is only a slower progressing cardiovascular disease okay? A moderate massacre? Following this reasoning, there should probably be absolutes for some things.

  @412whistle Oh man, you haven’t even seen the light of it! Here is a candid video of me and my friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTpgqqLyAs8 - Haha. I definitely recommend checking out “The Best Speech You Will Ever Hear by Gary Yourofsky”, you will see that it is a lot more interesting than that: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4 (I recommend 1.5x playback speed) - And seriously, watch the Q and A afterwards, it is 100% worth it, because it is so funny: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=WIkC4OJEx3c

  @shpoonk No problem friend :)

  @osmium Thank you for the support! It’s very pleasant to see. The response and engagement here has been excellent!

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 14th, 2022
  

  @Jack_Milad Haha. I focus on the people that are interested in honest dialogue. And from those attempting to get a reaction, I am not taking any of it personally. I understand that there are so many ways that can make people behave in such a manner, so I can’t be worn out :D

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  bd2232
  January 14th, 2022
  

  Okay, when I said local farmers, it’s truly local. Not a big barn, only around 20 to 30 head of cattle.

  However, big companies have been buying up farms in NB (New Brunswick) like mad. I for one am all for ratting anyone who mistreats animals (even for livestock). Yes, I do understand the irony that I will still send them to the slaughter but, do it in a proper fashion.

  On the farm we had, we butchered all our own animals (and didn’t feed them the crap big companies love to do).

  I can’t remember the factory in BC (I believe) where a person told the truth to show how chickens were slaughtered and, the cruel and sadistic things some workers did. I actually showed some folks the video and, we don’t buy their chicken anymore.

  I hate to say it, but you are 110% right. He who has the gold, makes the rules and, big companies farming the hell out of stuff is billions of dollars a year industry.

  Mostly, I eat a healthy blended diet. 50/30/20 (protein/carbs/fats). When I say protein, not all from animals….beans, peas and other legumes as well.

  In fact I often fool friends/relatives by making chilli but, use jack fruit in it instead of meat.

  Am I for a full plant diet….don’t think so….am I for a balanced and, healthier diet and lifestyle….YES.

  BTW, do you know the sick thing about ‘hot housed chickens’? The cages are so tight together, they have a person who clips their beaks off (look it up).

  One thing I will say, it’s too bad that the most diverse conversation on this subject has to be on a torrent pirating site. Once again, we seem to have the lion’s share of brains.:)

  Stay safe and be careful folks with the virus.

  bd.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 15th, 2022
  

  @bd2232 Haha, I have never tried jackfruit yet. That’s incredible that people can be fooled by it, there are others products on the market that have achieved that too.

  Yeah, I find the same thing. People have a ton of empathy for others, such as animals. They have never really thought about this subject, and when it is brought up, it creates powerful emotions as it contradicts their views with their actions. It creates cognitive dissonance. From my experience, it goes both ways. Sometimes people are open minded “wow, I’ve never thought about it”, or they get hurt, block/ignore it by stopping thinking about it, and attempt to pass the hurt on “I’m going to eat two steak for lunch now!”

  On Reddit, the conversation can be pretty good too. I’ve been there for a couple years, the hate towards vegans is slowly dying down.

  If you don’t mind I will ask a few hypothetical questions to understand your philosophy:

  1. Would you accept being treated like an animal? even on a high welfare farm?

  2. Let’s say one day you get into an automobile accident. A sharp metal pole fractures your skull, rendering half of your brain inactive. You recover, but you are only a fraction of yourself. You can no longer look after yourself, but you have a loving family who look after you. And you enjoy your life, you’re still loving life. i) Would you accept being killed by somebody such as Dahmer because he felt like making a hamburger? ii) Dahmer knows he can still eat a hamburger, by simply buying or making an alternative meat like substance, from products that do not intentionally harm anyone and minimize the suffering that is caused throughout the chain. He ignores this. What do you think of Dahmer?

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 15th, 2022
  

  Also it’s awesome that you eat beans, peas, legumes and etc. So many people avoid one of most versatile and healthiest foods that we have (seriously, an intake of beans is one of the predictive factors that determine whether you will get into an old age). They’re the backbone of the Blue Zones.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  fatwoman
  January 15th, 2022
  

  Can you get Man-Not by tommy curry?

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  Talulah320
  January 16th, 2022
  

  If you’ve drilled down this far, then I’ll postulate two things…

  1) Those who eat meat are in fact second hand vegetarians. They eat the animals that eat the vegetables.

  2) It’s nothing short of amazing that a cow, a pig or a chicken makes meat from eating grains, plants, and other such sundries.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  A.B.B
  January 16th, 2022
  

  @fatwoman So sorry for this but I have too many audiobooks on my list. And this book, in my opinion, does not have enough popularity to break the chain.

  @daenigma100 might be up for it though. And you should have a look at their bio, they may have a lot of audiobooks that interest you: https://audiobookbay.lu/member/users/index?&mode=userinfo&username=daenigma100

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  tazztone
  January 20th, 2022
  

  anyone has the .epub ebook file?

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  tazztone
  January 20th, 2022
  

  @callmebill
  historically one of the longest living populations in okinawa Japan only ate 1-2% animal products
  https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-the-okinawa-diet-living-to-100/
  also the 7th day adventists vegans perform very well in the studies of healthy old age

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  tazztone
  January 20th, 2022
  

  @bd2232
  now before you cry unnatural: you do consume “iodized” salt right? also most animals here do get supplements in their feed that ends up in their meat.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  tazztone
  January 20th, 2022
  

  @bd2232 “Am I for a full plant diet….don’t think so…. am I for a balanced and, healthier diet? yes”

  you know you can have both a fully plant based diet that is balanced and healthy. that is according to the AND: a properly planned vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/
  as is the mediterranean or the “balanced” omnivourous diet from the dietary guidelines

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  tazztone
  January 20th, 2022
  

  @Talulah320
  1. agree
  2. good reason to eat low in the food chain (meaning plants) is u don’t get the bad stuff (PCB, pesticides, dioxins etc) that accumulates in the animals and their flesh

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  elliottsmith9797
  March 3rd, 2022
  

  

  Thankyou. I read this and feel compelled to go vegan. I am convinced that there is no place for what we have always done to animals in contemporary societies.
  Cheers. :))

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters
• 
  stenka25
  August 20th, 2022
  

  

  Thanks a lot, A.B.B.

  This Is Vegan Propaganda: (And Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) - Ed Winters

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