Kiev 1941: Hitler’s Battle for Supremacy in the East - David Stahel

This post has 5 comments with rating of 5/55

• 
  caesar963
  September 29th, 2019
  

  

  Nazis, I hate these guys.
  They had to invade Russia in the Spring, but were delayed until the summer because Mussolini was in trouble in the Balkans & needed to be bailed out. Therein lies the end of the war.
  Thanks again, jewwangle.

  Kiev 1941: Hitler's Battle for Supremacy in the East - David Stahel
• 
  trollprince
  September 30th, 2019
  

  

  No, man. The outcome was never in doubt from the beginning. Even if Russia falls, it still puts the war over in Europe by October 1945.

  Nothing you can do against nukes if you don’t have any. Even without the nukes, the war still ends by 1946-47. There was just no way to keep up with American production.

  In fact, British production was outstripping German by 43-44. Just a bad deal all around.

  Kiev 1941: Hitler's Battle for Supremacy in the East - David Stahel
• 
  caesar963
  September 30th, 2019
  

  But if they had invaded in the Spring, they would likely not have been caught by “General Winter” like Napoleon. Moscow could have been taken before the end of the year, and with Russia extremely depleted, if not defeated, the oil lines would’ve been secured.

  It was Hitler’s stupidity to declare war on America after Pearl Harbour (in December of the same year as the invasion of Russia). Otherwise, with the Nazis effectively controlling Europe as far as the Ural mountains, a settlement might’ve been reached with Britain, disturbing though it may be to contemplate. The British would not have had an alternative, as the main part of the German war machine would have been turned upon them.

  True enough, there’s no arguing with nukes; but there is an argument (and there’s a “racial” cultural component to this) that the decision to deploy atomic weapons would be taken a lot more readily in Asia, against Japan; rather than in Europe, against Germany. It might be atavistic & tribal, but if the potential victims are more like you than not (Eisenhower was a German-American, for instance) then the war would have to be in far more perilous straits before the ultimate weapon was utilised. It might be used in Asia first, as a means of intimidating the Nazis (scaring the Russians was partly why it was dropped in Japan - twice - which you could argue was overkill).

  This cuts both ways, the Germans showed a distinct preference to surrender to the West rather than the East. Anyway, this is all counterfactual conjecture!

  Kiev 1941: Hitler's Battle for Supremacy in the East - David Stahel
• 
  jewwangle
  October 12th, 2019
  

  One point this book makes a lot is just how insufficient German supplies were, even before the tide started turning in the east. German manufacturing, much like manpower was at such a big disadvantage comparatively to Russia, that the war had been decided from a logistical side, before it was apparent on the battlefield.

  Even had the Germans made it to Moscow in time, that wouldn’t have necessarily meant much. Russians were prepared to (again) abandon Moscow, and retreat further into the interior of Russia to continue the fight. All of which would have bought more than enough time for the US to reach its insane manufacturing potential.

  I really struggle to see a realistic way the Nazis could have seen victory, but that’s just me!

  Kiev 1941: Hitler's Battle for Supremacy in the East - David Stahel
• 
  dchant
  June 18th, 2022
  

  

  Thank you kindly

  Kiev 1941: Hitler's Battle for Supremacy in the East - David Stahel

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